discrete 6.1, 7.1, sound detail and clarity. BASS MANAGEMENT!!! Lots of digital inputs, sell selecting input

Not the best remote, buttons on the unit are good, but take too long to actually fine tune. IEEE 1394 Will there be an update! MAnuals as always!!!

I just replaced my Denon AVP 8000 DTS with the B&K ref 30. The first few things I noticed the second I changed over to this unit were: bass management, clearity, and detail.

The differenc in the detail of the music was apparent right away. Listening to Jazz was a brand new experience...sounds that I had never heard were right there as though I had my hands over my ears before witht he Denon

Clearity: Movies have a all new sound as well. The sound track while watching the Matrix was great. I could hear a much different and better sound as well as better channel separation. The Denon was good, but not this good.

BASS Management: Again it amazed me. With the Denon I had to constantly adjust my sub to have a clean and even sound with music and movies as well as between different moives and CDs. With the B&K I set it and forget it. I set the bass management for each input and preset and I have not adjusted it since. Movies no longer have over powering bass one minute and no bass the next.

Draw backs: The manual. Is it a rule that electronics manuals have to suck? Well the B&K one does. It gives a big hand wave over how to operate many of the advanced features. It does cover the back ones, but it took me a while to devine the more advanced functions. B&K needs to go to its own remote or a LCD based remote like the Pronto. Lastly the buttons are to simple on the unit. I like not having to go through menu after menu or hit a combination of buttons to adjust or switch the unit.

Overall this unit is the best buy in my system and a best buy overall. I tried the Meridian, and the Lexicon, but it was not worth the thousands more for those units. For $2200 on average this unit out-performs everything under about $6000.

System:
B&K Ref 30
Denon DVD 5000
Marantz MM9000
Atlantic Technology: 450E System
451 Left and Rght
453 Center
454 Surrounds
Velodyne HGS 15 Subwoofer

Proxima DP 9240 XGA projector (1600 ANSI lumens)

XLO ER-12 cables for fronts and center
XLO ER-11 cable for surrounds
XLO ER-4 interconnects

Similar Products Used:

Denon AVP 8000DTS, Marantz AV 9000

Flexibility

Upgradeability may be questionable

Amazing! It is just getting broken in and it is sounding tighter all the time. I auditioned the Acurus ACT-3, Lexicon DC-2 and the Krell Home Theater Standard all in my HT room. I was all ready to mortgage the place and get the Krell. But after about 4 hours tweaking the BK, I was sold. My previous unit was a Ref 20, which may make me a bit bias, however, I really thought I needed to "step-up" to get better sound. I was wrong.

What I Really Like - Quality Build and not getting over- featured to death.

Biggest Suprise - The quality of the 2 channel sound.



Related equipment:
B&K Reference 30 A/V preamp
BK 7260 Amp
BW 805's front and center
REL Strata III Sub
Toshiba 5109 DVD
Toshiba 56x81 HDTV
MIT Interconnects
MIT Bi-wired spk cables.
Bel Canto DAC

Similar Products Used:

BK Ref 20, Yamaha . . .

Everything

Nothing for this price

Love the product very smooth, large soundstage and airy presentation.

Looks much better in Silver.

Excellent bass management, good warm sound, easy to setup, great remote

Not the last word in detail, but still good.

This is a very good preamp, and certainly better than anything else in it's price range. I've had it now for several months and still find myself tinkering with all the settings- 'not because it doesn't sound good, but because there is a lot you can do with it.

The sound is warm and clear, fairly detailed, with excellent extension. The soundstage is fantastic, especially for movies. The bass management is superb and even has a notch filter for your worst room node.

The remote is your standard Home Theater Master SL-9000 learning remote, and works well with all devices I have. I only needed to fudge my DVD controls because of the layout.

I love the sound and would have no problems keeping this unit for the next several years.

Related equipment:
B&K Reference 30 A/V preamp
Parasound HCA-1205a 5-channel amp
modified Pioneer DV-525 DVD player
ACI Sapphire III's
ACI Titan II sub
(other components like Denon tape player, Dual turntable)
Mostly Monster or XLO interconnects
14 gauge Home Depot speaker cable

It gets my vote of 5 bones.

Similar Products Used:

Nakamichi, Denon and Onkyo receivers

Your wife can use it, well-defined soundstage, unmatched value

Your wife can use it, high-end brightness and some fatigue in DTS mode, fascist "Plug-n-Play" bitstream snooping

System:
B&K Reference 30
(5) Marantz MA-700 monoblocks

Sources:
Pioneer PDF-1039 301-disc CD changer (TOSlink)
Denon DVD-2000 (TOSlink)
Apex AD-600A (Digital Coax)
Sony Playstation 2 (TOSlink)

Speakers:
B&W Matrix 803 Series II
B&W HTM Center
Wharfedale MFM5 -- Mission 707 -- Definitive BP1X surrounds
(varies depending on music vs. movies)
Paradigm Servo-15 Sub
Transparent MusicWave biwired cables
Monster interlinks

I should begin my review by admitting that my system is in a state of flux right now. I have some really good stuff mated with some really cheap stuff, and I'm really not that happy with the surround channel speakers. I think it's time to get some B&W Nautilus surrounds back there once I crawl back up out of poverty. My existing choices back there really drag down multi-channel audio.

I just upgraded from a Denon 3200 preamp: the front three channels fed 3 Marantz MA-700s, and the 3200 remained the amp for the rear channels. I was pretty happy with this setup, but it was Dolby Digital only, and I had a vague dissatisfaction with the rear channel; it was (and is) way out of sync with the timbre from the front three B&W channels. This was probably due to the mismatch between the 200 Watt Marantz monoblocks and the 85 Watt internal Denon amps, but I still feel the back is anemic with the Denon out of the picture and 2 new MA-700s back there.

I went out and auditioned the Anthem AVM2, and I have to say I was very underwhelmed by the audio. I didn't have the opportunity to listen to any kind of music source, but the movie output seemed very anemic, with a squashed soundstage. Bummer, since it had been B&W Nautilus 803s and a CDM center in the front, roughly corresponding with my front three channels at home.

After reading the glowing reviews of the B&K here at AudioReview (and the not-so-glowing reviews of the AVM2 here), I gave it a listen at a shop across the street from the Anthem. I was sold, even tho' at that particular shop the B&K was driving Martin Logans-- much less sloppy than what I had at home.

At home, it was a breeze to set up, not so doom-and-gloom that people will lead you to believe. But then, I'm used to setting up my Denon, which can be pretty obscure. It took about an hour to configure properly for my setup, and after a thorough level check with an SPL meter, I was off and running.

The difference between the B&K and the Denon receiver were immediately noticeable. My first selection was to give the Gladiator DTS a whirl; it really is much better than Dolby Digital sounded on my Denon. The soundstage grew by about 30 feet, on all sides of the room; very spacious, very precise. It was, however, a bit too bright. Between the B&K, which is rumoured to be so, and the Marantz MA-700s, which also have a tendency toward sibilance, my B&W tweeters were working overtime. I kicked out the Gladiator disc and put in Titan A.E. Sure, it got nasty reviews, but the first ten minutes are among the best demo material since all of Starship Troopers. In DTS, I was blown away; very impressive. Also, very fatiguing, even at lower levels. I started to become concerned. Throwing Dolby Digital discs in there, the weirdness began: DD 5.1 sounded great; not harsh, no sibilance, tolerable at reference volume. Sure, you can tell the difference: DTS has more detail. But I pay the price for that extended precision by having to crank the volume way down. Go figure. Maybe I have pink-ear. Maybe I'm finally exposing limitations on my sources, amps, or speakers. I'm sure equipment manufacturers would have me believe the latter.

At this point I decided to try some Telarc discs. I put Beethoven's Sixth into the Apex DVD, and became intimate with another drawback of the B&K design. The so-called "Plug-n-Play" design of the B&K reads the bitstream and chooses a surround mode based upon the signature it finds, and secondarily on your personal preferences for that channel (B&K would have you believe it's the other way around, but the bitstream _will_ trump your preferences). I'm sorry, but Plug-n-Play was a bad idea for computers, and it's a bad idea for enthusiast-class devices (standard disclaimers of idea-versus-implementation notwithstanding). I could not get the B&K to read the digital PCM bitstream from the Apex to save my life; it kept defaulting to Analog Direct mode, no matter what I told it to do. I could hear about two seconds of audio before the B&K decided that it didn't like what it heard, and switched to Analog (where I had no inputs at all). Sure, "Plug and Play" makes things easier for your kids, mom, wife, and/or girlfriend to fire up the processor, but it's a living hell for those of us who want to listen to good old-fashioned _digital_ two-channel stereo pumped through some fancy 24/96 DACs. DTS or Dolby worked fine: it was only two-channel PCM that it choked on. Digital Coax PCM into my computer worked fine from the Apex, so I point my finger at the B&K.

Strangely, it didn't have this problem with TOSlink inputs. I was able to play discs digitally from the Pioneer changer or the Playstation 2 with no troubles. Games and music on the PS2 sounded great with the B&K. Still bright, like everything else, but I'll attribute that to the breaking-in period. After all, I've only spent a day with the system as-is.

Another quirk: I found that even though I had set up the number of speakers in my system (surround mode "Side-5"), a press of the mode button would still come up in 7-speaker surround mode _regardless_ of my input preferences (also set to "Side-5"). Now, I understand that it will mix down this mode to my five-channel setup, but I guess I'm confused as to why this mode even comes up at all any more. The B&K either gives me too much control to select modes that don't exist, or not enough by disallowing modes that are possible. It certainly isn't as precise to use as the Denon family: the Denon will allow you to listen to anything you want given the parameters of your speaker setup in either the digital or analog domain. Not so with the B&K. To be fair, the B&K allows you to turn off the auto-mode switch feature, but I still could not coax it to read the coax PCM input, pun intended. If you want full control over the surround modes, turning off the "Plug-and-Play" feature is a good start, though I still have the sense that the B&K thinks it knows best: with or without this feature, I find myself mode-hunting with every source change.

I've stressed the negative aspects of my experience with the B&K to offset the glowing reviews, and to cushion the experience of those who might have a similar setup as my own. In truth, I am excited by the musicality of the system, excited to find the node that's killing me (the B&K allows you to apply a system-wide notch filter to all sources, to match your room), and excited to listen to all my CDs and DVDs all over again. It's all about value, impact, and musicality, and in these three criteria the B&K trumps everything else in reach of its price. In that sense, I most certainly "upgraded" my system.

Finally, in essence I believe (based on other's experiences) that the longer you spend with the B&K, the more rewarding your experience with it. At least, I hope so, because I don't feel there's an adequate alternative for less than $5000.

Similar Products Used:

Anthem AVM2, Denon 3200 pre-stage, Classe

Features, flexibility, sound quality, upgradable, universal remote

Clicks when swiching audio modes, runs very hot, no dedicated D/A for tape outputs

I agree with the previous review except I have only seen the clicking quirk. My review is for a unit with version 2.05 software.

The movie sound quality is clearly superior to my Sony even without THX processing active. This unit more clearly represents complex audio passages in movies and presents a more accurate three-dimensional sound image in both prologic and dolby digital. I was originally purchasing this unit to simplify system operation for my wife and was shocked by the degree of improvement in movie sound reproduction.

Music reproduction is also very good, but it is not clearly superior to the Sony. It may be better, but I have not had a chance to compare it yet.

I really like the notch filter for removing low frequency room resonance. It would be nice if this feature was more complex and allowed maybe 5-10 notches over the 20-20K range and included a test tone over the entire range.

The FM tuner is inferior to my Yamaha TX-950, but it is about equal in quality to most of the broadcasts here. The AM tuner is more sensitive than the one in my TX-950.

Similar Products Used:

Sony SDP-EP9ES

Frequency response 5Hz-150kHz! Upgradable,EX 7.1,6.1 made in the USA.

no XLR outs.

I was shocked the first time I fired up the 30 with the rock group Godsmack. The detail,air and space was so great I could not believe I was using something other then Lexicon or Krell. In movies the B&K was a revelation. The first dvd I used was Gladiator DTS. The realism was incredible. Effects were distinct and powerful, the sound of horses galloping made my living room sound like a ranch. This unit is truely impressive. And its cool looking front panel is unique from others. For the value rating between 1 and 5 it gets a 10 when compared to the other overpriced pre/pros that performe just as well if not lower. Make the Ref.30 your top canidate when searching for the brains of your new home theater.

Similar Products Used:

Lexicon DC-1,processor section of Denon 5800.

Bass management capabilities & features, smooth open sound, great sounding tuner.

Clicking sound when changing sources, this is minor.

For the price I just can't say enough good things about this product. The main reason I went for the Reference 30 was for it's bass management capabilities and features.

My listening room has always been a problem in spite of the fact I have spent hours experimenting with speaker placement. The best speaker placement still resulted in a very big peak at 38Hz and a null at 50Hz. I have always had to turn my sub volume down to 25% to avoid boominess in the 38Hz range. This resulted in a very deep null at 50Hz which left music sounding thin.

The Ref. 30 notch filter feature has allowed me to notch the 38Hz range down 18db and turn the sub volume up to 50% and virtually eliminate the 50Hz null. With the notch filter I am able to relocate my sub to a position that in the past made the 38Hz peak even worse but helped fill the 50Hz null. I completely eliminated the 50Hz null by setting the crossover frequency at 65Hz. The Ref. 30 allows you to set the crossover frequency virtually anywhere which is a great feature for achieving the best bass. End result, these features have allowed me to completely transform the sound! I have never had such smooth, defined, full bass in this listening room.

The Ref. 30 includes a 20-300Hz tone generator which makes setting up all the bass features much easier. I spent several hours experimenting with the crossover frequency, notch filter and variable EQ. The improvement in sound when properly set-up is impressive.

This unit also provides a variable EQ which allows you to set the frequency at which bass and treble tone controls have an effect. In addition to problems noted earlier, I was able to eliminate a 10db peak at 105Hz using the EQ feature.

The Ref. 30 has very good sounding D/A converters which sound smooth, clear and detailed. The tuner is one of the best I have heard and pulls in stations with no static. I listen to radio for casual listening and this type of reception quality is just not avaliable in similar pre-amps.

The manual is better than most, 80+ pages but with so many avaliable features many are not covered in detail. I learned the finer details by trial & error. This unit has a ton of features, all of which are useful (what a nice surprise). Fortunately B&K did not include the many useless features (multiple sound modes for instance) found on other products.

If you are a serious listener with the desire to extract the best sound out of your system and room, this unit has no competition at this price. My system has never sounded better.

Similar Products Used:

Marantz AV550

Upgradeable, built quality, features.

Nice to have balanced out.

Thank you Audio Review for putting this on your site. I was starting to think the site was no longer updating product.

I had the opportunity to compare the REF20 to the REF30 this week from a customer who traded it in for a 30 (I am a B&K dealer). If we could not hear an appreciable difference in two channel listening, he was not interested in spending for the sake of the latest and greatest. We pulled out a REF30 and sonically studied them side-by-side. The differences were a clear improvement using the new DAC's of the REF30. More open and airy sounding and the REF30 was a clear winner. When I used the DVD player's DAC's in the "Direct mode" which bypasses base management and the DSP circuitry, the differences were undistinguishable between the two models. This makes sense because the circuitry is the same (PT3 circuitry) for both. (FYI: I used EAD's reference DVD player that won a Golden Ear Award). We then compared the preamp selection in Direct mode to the Sim Audio Moon P-3 preamp (again Absolute Sound Golden Ear Award winner). We were curious how much better the $2600 Sim reference preamp would sound. The Sim preamp was the subtle winner. For some people (audiophiles), this would be enough to justify the additional expense for others (audio enthusiasts) it probably is not. My point is the REF30 competes favorably with highend preamps. I have listened in the past to the Proceed, Theta, Parasound, Krell, EAD, Class'e and Lexicon prepro's side-by-side and the B&K is at the top side of the pack independent of price.
Later in the demo, my customer looks and sees the Marantz AV9000 in the corner and asks to hear a quick A-B comparison. We fired it up in two channel using the AV9000's DAC's, it was obvious that the Marantz was not in the same league….. It was like putting sheets over the speaker as we lost transparency, detail and airiness. The quality difference would follow in home theater but we did not do the test in the sake of time. It reminded me of the SACD demo in the Marantz room at CES. Flat and lifeless compared to the B&K room at Ceasars Palace. Marantz is a great value (I sell it) but it is no B&K!
We also studied the tuner sections and the REF20 actually sounded a little better even though they used the same tuner in both. The location was in a different spot internally but I am not sure why it sounded different. I guess if you want an incredible tuner, you get the $1500 analog Dynalab. For listening to radio, it does the job. The difference was slight and really not worth mentioning but it was a little interesting.
When we listen to it in 5.1 using Dynaudio 1.3SE's, HGS-18, and Bryston 9BST amp, the openness and level of detail was again obvious when using Casper DTS on Laser Disk (by the way THE best recorded DTS disk). The steering of the effects was smoother and the center channel dialog was more coherent and detail. It reminded me of the Lexicon MC-1 home theater performance.
I wanted to also discuss the popping, clicking, audio cut off etc. Quality wise I have little problems with the ten AVR305/307 and twenty REF30's that I have sold. One had a Pioneer laser disk locking problem that was fixed in 2.04 software, and the other had an analog noise problem in bypass in the left speaker. This is not the experience I had with early production units of the REF20 but B&K got it right on this design.
I say that one of the reviews noted that he looses a few seconds of audio. Reason for this is that this is a timing "balancing act" for all the vendors. Some players will do it, others will not. Last year in the REF20 people complained that they heard burst of static when they initially locked into DTS or AC3. Well, they put in a longer delay so you will not hear this hiss but now SOME players who have built in delay. Delay on delay misses a second of music (in direct mode, it will not do this). Krell, Proceed and others have had this concern while other vendors still get the static sound complaint. There is no perfect solution other than getting a DVD player that does not add delay.
I have also heard people hearing a "background hiss" when no source is playing (the threads will mention this as more review this product). . Hear is why… Nearly all pre-pro vendors put a relay in series and open the circuit when no source is inputted. This makes it dead silent the second you have some volume, this digital "hiss" is present with all vendors but the signal to noise ratio makes it inaudible. I agree with this design philosophy because the relay adds cost and more importantly it corrupts the signal path. I will take this trade off. As for clicking, I don't know what people hear as I own a AVR305 for one of my systems and I don't focus on noises. I will have to pay attention I guess.
In summary, the REF30 is a world-class performer at a very reasonable price. No doubt in my mind it sounds better than many Japanese prepro's and competes with all of the higher end vendors favorably. Build quality is top notch and is a heavy 15+ pounds. They have all the features DVD Audio, 7.1, THX etc etc etc makes it a state of the art unit. It is truly an upgradeable processor as well.

Feel free to email or call if you have any questions (even if you own one)as I would love to help save the world from bad audio and home theater!
Steve (Owner) of Sound Video in MN
763-753-9349(Store) 763-753-8311 (Fax) email: herra001@tc.umn.edu
Sound Video
Custom Home Theater & Audio
Authorized Dealer Featuring: Aerial, Acurus, Aragon, Bryston, B&K, Class'e, Cinepro, Denon, Dynaudio, EAD, Gershman Acoustics, Gallo, Harmonic Tech, Kimber Kable, Lexicon, Marantz, Meridian (within 1 month), Monitor Audio,
M&K, NHT, Parasound, Pioneer, Plinius, PMC, Runco, Speaker Craft, Sherwood NewCastle, Sim Audio, Stewart Filmscreen, Toshiba & Velodyne
I also carry everything from inwall speakers, distribution audio, etc.

Similar Products Used:

Lexicon, Marantz, EAD, Class'e, Parasound