leroy millard

Overall Rating
 5 of 5

Value Rating
 5 of 5

Used product for
More than 1 year

Price Paid:  $0.00

Summary:
after hearing these speakers put out there magic I went to downsize my other sets to someone elses spaces. i'm gettig there slowly but i have more space now, more to come.
these are near perfect sounding to me....

Price Paid:  $1850.00 from Audiogon

Summary:
This is my 3rd and I hope the last review of this pair of wonderful speakers.

In a nutshell, my 1st review was back in 2001, and I had nothing but praises. That was when I started going into the high-end audio hobby. My 2nd review was in 2005 or so, when I owned the R645 for a 2nd time. My listening experience at that time was much more expanded, and I was very critical of the sound, and many of you sent me hate emails, flame et al. Some of you just can't take a 2 or 3 stars, can you? Even John Meyers sent me an email highly critical of what I said.

Come on guys! We are here to share opinions, not to cherry pick them!

In case you are curious, my 2nd review agreed with what Suel said a few posts earlier.

************************

Now, is third time's a charm? I purchased the R645 again but this one has the infamous Kitchen Sink Upgrade II plus the external tweeter crossover ($900 total) done by Sonic Craft. You may browse around and see the posts on how other R645 stunned by the great leap of improvements.

Since then, I have to disagree with what Suel said, and also add more details on why I still don't regard R645 as a reference quality setup in my home, and also a few $0.02 on equipment matching.

The KSU II gives 2 drastic improvements that are jaw-dropping:

1) COHERENCE - The scanpeaks are now blending in much better with the tweeter in terms of speed, smoothness and dynamics. What I didn't like about the stock was thatit sounded like 2 speakers into 1 (much like later Wilson Watt Puppy models). The stock bass module lacks speed, and most irritatingly, seems to play at a different *volume* from the tweeter. With the KSU II, now I hear a true organic whole.

2) BASS PERFORMANCE - The stock unit lacks mid-bass and bass in general. The last 2 times, I had to match it with very fast and musical sub. That addresses the bass issue somewhat but leads to other issues. With the KSU II, wow, I don't really need a sub any longer when playing Strauss's "Also Sprach Zarathustra" or Bach's "Toccata & Fugue in D minor".

Now, I still don't think this is my ultimate cup of tea:

A) For some reason, I cannot get big, full sound from the R645. It's not like I couldn't play loud nor the sound is not 3D. I could play real loud and the imaging is almost halographic, but I cannot get the orchestral sound to *envelope* me (Altec 604E users would know exactly what I am trying to describe). Try listening to some Mahler symphonies, and you will see what I meant. It seems like the sound is always in front of me. I could only say the R645 is not a forward-sounding speaker. If you like polite kind of sound, you will love the R645.

B) Something similar to above but more subtle: I still feel the sound is rather thin. The KSU II upgrade mades great strides in improving this area, but my Tangent RS-4 ($450 used) gives more sheen and body when playing Schonberg's "Transfigured Night" or Strauss's "Four Last Songs" while scarifying little in details (the R645 does have more details and instrument separation)

I don't have much idea on how to address (A). But for (B), I think the R645 likes high power solid state, especially MOSFET, amplifiers. When I was doing the 1st review, I was using Conrad Johnson MF2300A (an MOSFET). Later on, I used Sonic Frontiers Power 3 (which is 6550 based tube hybrid). Both gave truely full bodied sound.

My 2nd and 3rd reviews used pure tube amplifiers of various output power (from 35wpc VAC, 40wpc McIntosh MC240, 120w Manley Lab, to 280wpc KR Enterprise monoblocks). They are considered some of the very best sounding tube amps in terms of mid-range fullness. And I just don't hear the fullness with the R645. This time, I happened to have an Krell KSA100 Mk II that I coudl borrow, and boom! The full bodied sound is back!

I kinda recall some literature saying the R645 is easy to drive. I gotta disagree with that. Any cheap Yamaha A/V receiver could drive an Celestion SL700 (83db into 4 ohms), but it doesn't mean the Yamama really has the juicies to drive the SL700 the way it should be. In this case, you will get good sound from R645 with average amps, but you need truely high-quality, high-powered amp to realize it's full potential.

Based on my experience, I'd say the R645 would give the best sound in the following combinations (just the kind of equipments I owned before):

Solid State/MOSFET: Any Conrad Johnson, vintage Krell, vintage Mark Levinson, Muse, high powered McIntosh (MC2100 as a minimum). Citation 7.1 (bi-amp it!)

Tube Hybrid/Tube: Sonic Frontiers (I don't like Counterpoint at all, too unreliable and too veil-sounding). High powerd Acoustic Research amps (100wpc at least in my opinion). Music Reference RM9 Mk II.

Amps to avoid matching with R645:
- Any VTL made amps (they sound thin already!)
- Any Manley Lab tube amps (ditto!)
- low powered amp (recessed soundstage)
- any veil sounding amp (Musical Fidelity and un-modded Counterpoint comes to my mind)

********************

So, after all, you could get 5 star if you have great equipment match (like in my 1st review), or a 2 star if you have a disasterous match (like in my 2nd review). This hobby's all about adventurous experiments, no? Expensive propositions, but addictive and very enjoyable nevertheless.

********************

My final words about positioning: R645 is not as positioning friendly as you may think. Well, it's not like my Wilson Watt Puppy which took me almost 2 days to get it right. The R645 is not as nightmarish as the Wilson, nor picky as Martin Logan, but you really need to experiment a lot to get the optimal position. They WILL disappear if you put them right.

Happy listening!

Strengths:
1) Very 3D soundstage with superb speed and imaging.

2) Life-like sound if you have the right equipments. Almost the next best thing to live performances.

3) The appearance could be imposing, easy to impress your buddies. :-)

4) Close to truely full-range speakers with the Kitchen Sink Upgrade II.

Weaknesses:
1) Could sound thin when the power amp is underpowered. The R645 is much more power hungry than the specs have shown. Well, when's the last time you see a ribbon-based speaker that is NOT power hungry?

2) Not a forwarding sounding speaker, and thus if you are looking for the sound to engulf you, R645 may not be your choice.

3) Resale value hit: Just don't expect to pay $2750 brand new and get 70% back when you sell it, ok?

Similar Products Used:
Too many to list: Revel F30, Magneplan 3.5R, Tangent RS-4 (not Klipsch), Rogers LS3/5, Altec 604E, Silverilne Sonata, B&W 801, Wilson Watt Puppy, JM Lab 807, Tyler Acoustics Reference I, Coincident Partial Eclipse, Meridian DSP5000, Martin Logan SL3, Odeon Double Six, Duntech Crown Prince, Alon IV, Legacy Audio Classic, Celestion SL700, Klipsch LaScala, etc etc .......

Vincent Lim

Overall Rating
 5 of 5

Value Rating
 5 of 5

Used product for
Less than 1 month

Visitors rate this review
2.75 of 5, 4.00 votes

Price Paid:  $1500.00 from Used in Singapore

Summary:
Simply the best speaker available and certainly for the price.
The speakers demand the finest ancillary equipment although currently they are being used with Audio Research LS22 pre-amp, Audio Research VT130 power-amp and Audio Research CDP 3 supported by a REL STORM sub-woofer.
The sound output from all types of music fromm rock, vocals to orchestral and opera is truly magnificient.

Strengths:
Low price, stupendous performance and exquiste looks.

Weaknesses:
Weight. It is not easy to shift the speakers around the listening roo all by one-self.

Similar Products Used:
Magneplanar 3.5s, Quad 63s, Quad 57s, Harbeth, Apogee Scintillas and Apogee Divas.

cmiller

Overall Rating
 5 of 5

Value Rating
 4 of 5

Used product for
1 to 3 months

Visitors rate this review
1.50 of 5, 8.00 votes

Price Paid:  $2265.00 from Manufacturer

Summary:
I drive my wife and friends crazy by constantly upgrading/switching speakers and components and claiming "this just doesn't sound as good as it could." Nobody else seems to appreciate why I need to listen to my speakers in the dark, then angle them inches at a time until I am satisfied. I can honestly say that there will be no need for me to upgrade now that I purchased these. I had a pair of 830's in the past that I loved, but I got frustrated every time I stood up and got muffled sound. At the time the 645's cost too much. If I had the chance to experience the 645's back then I would have done anything possible to buy them. Instead I wasted many years and dollars trying high end all cone speakers. I am beyond meticulous with sound, and there is absolutely no comparison with these!

Strengths:
Beautiful soundstaging. I took J Meier's advice and got rid of my center channel. There will be no need to go back to one! The clarity is far beyond any traditional cone speaker that I have heard...even my McIntosh's. I personally love the look, and the attention they draw from guests. People are impressed before I turn them on. Once I turn them on, even my wife (who didn't understand why I needed speakers that were a foot taller than her) admitts that they bring out sounds in music never noticed before.

Weaknesses:
I honestly can't list any. The price could be a barrier for some people, but the 645's outperform speakers many times their price.

Similar Products Used:
Mordaunt-Short towers, Vintage McIntosh, Polk Audio, Definitive Technology, B&W, Triad. (I told you I switched speakers a lot in the past).

Price Paid:  $2265.00 from Online

Summary:
I owned the R645 for more than a year and have to agree for the most part with the previous reviewer. The R645 is extremely fast and revealing. The soundstage is wide, tall and 3D. Yes, unlike the prevous reviewer, I did get the 3D effect from this speaker. Maybe it is room-related. The imaging is pin-point accurate as well. However, that's about where the good news ends. Here are the major deficiencies that I found with this speaker: 1. Bad crossover design resulted in recessed midrange(thinness), and non-coherent sound(woofer sounds seperate from the tweeter. 2. It is almost impossible to fully integrate the line source tweeter with point source woofers(just two of them), as the power responses are different. 3. Limited dynamics from the twin 6.5" woofers, as well as from the ribbon itself. 4. Severe lobing effect between the two woofers, as well as between the woofers and the tweeter. 5. Given that the ribbons have really good horizontal dispersion, I am surprised to find that the sweet spot is fairly small. Maybe it is because of the poor off-axial response of the speakers(due to crossover design). The transparency and fastness of the upper and upper-mid range of the R645 can be initially eye-opening. But longterm listening experience is compromised due to the problems I described above. In the end, a more balanced speaker will probably provide a more enjoyable experience. This is not a bad speaker. It has its strengths. But the expectation should not be set too high. I do believe that there are better values out there for your $$$.

Similar Products Used:
B&W 604, 801 Series 2, Magnepan 3.6R and 1.6R, Swan 1.2, Thiel 2.3 and Linkwitz Orion.